So I finally took the time to update my firmware on my MS2 so that I could use tunerstudio. Finally got it to run again with the spout in after about 4hrs >:(Managed to get it to sort of idle decent and drive around(not well). Got my AFR table to match what I had in megatune(which no longer works with the new firmware). So I started out on a short drive with autotune on expecting it to start driving better, but ended up getting worse the longer I drove. I had to put back in the tune I started with just to get back home. So far Tunerstudio has been a PITA.
I would treat it like a new system. Open a new project, let ts discover the ecu. Load a good base tune. Calibrate sensors and set required fuel. Verify ignition timing, and ign/fuel/ve tables are ready to go. If everything's good to go, it should start and idle, then ve live "should" perform normally.
Hope it smooths out for you, I haven't had any issues, but I started with ts to begin with.
This is the reason I keep going back to megatune. I am no computer expert, but I at least should have been able to get this thing running again in an hour, not 4. I put in the base tune I had been running and it just doesnt want to cooperate
Something's gotta be off in the calibration then. Check wideband setup, sensor coolant/air temp calibration, and map settings in ts, if you haven't already.
It says how to do what you are trying to do and how/why VELive may not work without a little help when the tune is too far off to begin with (and how to make it work in these cases).
Did you configure your sensor settings? Did you calibrate your TPS? Did you verify that your wideband display is reading the same as the Air/Fuel on the laptop? Did you set your required fuel settings? Failure to do any of these things will cause nothing but problems.
Furthermore, when all of this is configured/calibrated properly, there is no reason you couldn't import your timing and fuel ve tables from your old tune (not load the whole file, just import the tables) and have it run at least "ok". They won't be perfect when switching from a much older firmware to the latest because the new firmware calculates the ve values different than the old firmware (which has nothing to do with Tunerstudio, it's a megasquirt thing).
As far as I can tell, I have everything configured properly, since I did them all about 4 times this afternoon just to be sure they were in there. I also copied all the tables over, but it just doesn't want to do much of anything other than backfire out the exhaust. If I dont get this taken care of soon, I will either blow the engine up or blow the exhaust off of it. It almost seems like ignition is a big part of it. Maybe its just so far off(matched the reading on tunerstudio to the timing light by turning distributor) that it cant jump the gap?
You say you did setup your required fuel by entering your number of cylinders, injector size, engine size, etc?
If commanded timing equals actual timing (as you stated) then there is no reason to suspect timing to be the issue (unless you had the engine apart and the cam timing is now off).
Looks like VE Live is removing about half of the original commanded fuel. As bad as you say it's running though, I'd suspect it's doing this because of a misfire that is throwing off the wideband readings (which I explain in the link above and below that I don't think you've read).
I'll ask again the questions from above that you didn't answer:
Looks like VE Live is removing about half of the original commanded fuel. As bad as you say it's running though, I'd suspect it's doing this because of a misfire that is throwing off the wideband readings (which I explain in the link above and below that I don't think you've read).
I'll ask again the questions from above that you didn't answer:
Have you checked out this sticky at the top of this forum section? stinger-performance.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=tune&action=display&thread=1002 Yes I have read that and all your stickys. The only thing I didnt do is try and take out half the fuel out of the table. I did get it idling and thats about as far as I got hoping the autotune would do its thing I guess.
Did you verify that your wideband display is reading the same as the Air/Fuel on the laptop? Yes. They are within .1
What's your afr read? (I need numbers, not just "rich" or "lean") under accel high 9's low 10's, cruising mid to high 12's
Did you set your required fuel settings? Yes 140cid, 75#/hr injectors, 4cyl
You say you did setup your required fuel by entering your number of cylinders, injector size, engine size, etc)? 140cid, 75#/hr injectors, 4 cyl
^answered above questions there ok, well I guess I should provide some more information. Rich issues are low 10's, high 9's. Car is an 88 tbird and has been completely rewired using the megasquirt 12' harness and a summit ezwiring harness. Pretty sure on all connections because all were soldered. Setup is very mild - unported head, bo 1.5, ported E6(only at outlet), .48 T3, 75# low ohm delphi injectors, rotated upper intake, blended inlet to lower, Giant FMIC, built for autox use, 2740#, and idles around 18 in vacuum.
Checked plugs today - totally black. I would guess at this point its so rich that the program cant deal with it. I am going to try almost cutting the fuel table in half and see what happens
Last Edit: May 9, 2011 17:05:36 GMT -5 by fordguy545
I tried taking fuel out, but probably not enough, but in the lower rpm ranges, I thought I had it so it was in a reasonable range that auto tune would be able to take care of, but instead it decided to screw it all up again. Heres a video of what its doing. Sound isn't great because of all the rocks picked up by the rcomps. Not planning on taking it back out on the road till I am reasonably sure its going to be able to get back. BTW Plugs are absolutely black again. They were fresh at lunch.
Yeah, just as I suspected in the video. You've got a misfire (most likely a rich misfire but could be a lean misfire as well regardless of what the AFR reads) that's throwing off the AFR reading. When you have a misfire VE Live is useless (not because VE Live isn't "good enough", no autotune feature in the world can tune with a misfire).
From elsewhere on this forum:
VE Live isn't used when the engine is cold or to fix startup/warmup settings. When it is first fired up, open the Fuel VE table and keep it running long enough (at a steady rpm, as low of an rpm as you can) to get a view of the AFR to see whether it's choppy because it's too lean or too rich. If it is an AFR that it will run in without causing a misfire (typically 11-17:1 or so) then click/select the group of 12-16 cells or so around where it is running in the VE table and click the asterisk (*) button in the top right corner of the VE table. This button will scale the selected cells by the amount you enter. Entering 1.2 for instance increases commanded fuel by 20% (makes it run richer), entering .8 reduces fuel by 20% (run leaner).
So if you find the AFR you are seeing is 17:1, enter 1.2 and click "OK". If it runs better now and the AFR is closer to the correct range (14.7-15.0 at idle when warm, 13.5 or so when cold) then you're on the right track.
If it runs worse or no better and the AFR didn't change or got farther away from the target, you're experiencing a rich misfire which is making the wideband read lean because of the unburnt fuel/oxygen in the exhaust. In this case, scale those same VE cells the other direction. In this case, you'd enter .6 (since entering .8 would get you back to the starting position) to reduce fuel commanded by 20%. Do the same thing (view AFR and see if it moved towards the target or not). If the base tune is quite a bit off, you may need to add or subtract 30% or better to get near the target afr.
Once you figure out how much total % you had to add or subtract to make it run smooth, it will most likely need this same % change in all of the VE cells below 100 fuel load % and below 2500 rpm. You can either change this manually to speed up the tuning process or you can let VE live do it later. The greater % change you had to make initially, the more important it is to change the rest of the cells below 100 load and 2500 rpm to match the initial change.
Post by fordguy545 on May 10, 2011 16:23:03 GMT -5
Something in that explanation clicked this time I guess. Turns out its a lean misfire(kinda surprising since the plugs were black, but I guess that doesnt mean everything), after I started richening stuff up, it started running better, and drives around pretty decent now too. Still pops under some boost though. Be working on that tonight. Thanks a bunch guys. Stupid mistakes make big problems when under time pressure, lol.