Generally there is some amount of "stall saver" timing built into any file you get from us. More can certainly be beneficial. To adjust this, at your target idle speed (typically in the 950-1000 range with a 2.3 or large cam V8) you run purposefully less than ideal timing. I would set the bin the car is actually idling at in this range to about 15 degrees with a factory cam, or 20 with a larger cam.***(This will require increased idle duty to get the car to idle.)***
Two more questions. If my ign load should match my vacume and boost that my car will ever see, how do I establish (calculate) these numbers? For example: my car idled at 18" of vacume and the max boost I plan to run will be no greater than 20psi. The scale I have in tunner studios starts at 20% and goes to 300%.
Second question Shannon if you get a chance could you update the ignition table to one of yalls stock tunes.
The % values are actually vacuum/pressure measured in kPa (kilopascals). Basically 100kpa (%) is the point of zero boost/zero vacuum, anything below 100 is vacuum, above 100 is boost. To convert kPa to PSI on your gauge, use this calculator: www.calculator.org/property.aspx?name=pressure
You'll be comparing psig and kPa from the drop down menus. 10psi should equal 170.2 kPa when you are using the calculator correctly. 18" vacuum (in.hg 60F) is 60.7 kPa and 20psi is 239.2 kPa.
"Generally there is some amount of "stall saver" timing built into any file you get from us. More can certainly be beneficial. To adjust this, at your target idle speed (typically in the 950-1000 range with a 2.3 or large cam V8) you run purposefully less than ideal timing. I would set the bin the car is actually idling at in this range to about 15 degrees with a factory cam, or 20 with a larger cam.***(This will require increased idle duty to get the car to idle.)***"
Idle duty is referring to the settings for the IAC valve that controls idle speed.
Yes, more timing means more advance which means a bigger number.
The map above has a lot of idle timing because it came from my SVO with a big cam and it sounded mean with that much timing...and it didn't have an IAC and the clutch was so grabby you had to rev it up to get it moving anyway so there was no way to use the timing adder method to "save" the engine from a stall (so I tuned it to sound mean at idle).
I'll most likely change the pic above to one of the base tune files I have here as they match the guide better (I considered this after the latest thread updates but didn't get around to it).
I saw that the map above had a total rev limit to about 6000. Do you have the map that shows the 7500 limit, so I can "fill in" the table. My motor sounds just like your build. I am using a gm map sensor that does like 320 kpa, I have a bigger cam, and 1000cc injectors on my ka24e-t fully built. Just working out the kinks to make it run better at low rpm so I can start tuning for boost. Thanks, Andrew
The timing requirements are similar from 6000-7500. With MS, if you rev higher than the table, it just holds the last value on the table. If you want your table to go to 7500, just add .5 to 1 degree more than it has at 6k.
Be aware that the timing requirements for a 2.3 Ford (2 valve per cylinder, open chamber, iron head, 8:1 compression) will be different than the ka24e. Our old Fords require more timing than newer more efficient designs. For example, when guys use the Volvo 4v aluminum head on our engines, they have to run 3-5 degrees less than the guys with stock iron heads.
I used your 26* at 700rpm to keep it at a steady idle, and it cold starts great with no IAC.
I suppose ill take out about 3* and keep it there for now to be safe. Iron head can handle a lot of abuse. I guess thats why a lot of diesels sport them.
I read that stock, people using the dizzy advance the ka24e to 20* at idle. I figure 25-26* shouldn't be bad for the motor. I am using the BIP373 for spark, so if I hear detonation, Ill know exactly how much to take out from that point on.
Ill do some research on the 2.3, it sounds like a cool motor.
Atmospheric pressure is about 14.5 psi. Boost gauges display gauge pressure, not total pressure. To calculate gauge pressure, you have to remove atmospheric pressure from the MAP reading. Atmospheric pressure varies by elevation (among other things) but it can be viewed by simply turning on your key (engine off) and viewing the MAP reading. Typically it's in the 90's. So to convert kPa to boost pressure as read on a gauge, you take the atmospheric pressure away from the MAP reading before converting.
The "easy" way is to just remove 100 kPa away from the MAP reading before calculating.
Post by crazyhorse on Sept 16, 2015 10:09:17 GMT -5
Is it possible to set timing a lil lower then 20* before even starting up wit pimp? 20* seems like a lot, wen my car was n/a I only had initial timing set at 17*. I'm running low compression turbo v8. Can I set it up at like 15* or should I just startup on 20 and remove from there?
The 20* you set initially has nothing to do with how much the engine actually runs once you change it to "use table". The 20 degrees number is ONLY to give you a chance to verify that timing at the engine matches timing commanded by the ECU/shown on the laptop. We use 20 because engines will idle/run at 20 degrees better than they will run at 10 degrees or something. You can set fixed timing to 10 in the software and then set it to 10 with a timing light but it will change NOTHING other than your engine won't run as well while you're trying to set timing. Once you go back to "use table", your timing will be exactly the same as it would be had you used 20 degrees instead of 10.
So in short, do it like we say to do it, it has nothing to do with total timing you're running. Total timing is determined entirely by the spark advance table.
And this question should have been posted in the PiMP section.
Last Edit: Sept 16, 2015 10:18:52 GMT -5 by Stinger
I recommend changing two boxes in this table, to be a bit more conservative. At 130 KPa/2000 rpm, retard to 21.0*, and at 130KPa/2600rpm, retard to 22*. I've been getting knock with my stock engine an the original settings in the table, when stabbing the throttle in 4th/5th gear in this rpm range on the street. Granted, it's not a dyno test, but IMHO, I heard it. YMMV.
Thanks for the feedback. There is no "perfect" timing table that is universal for all applications. The table posted here is a "starter" table and nothing more. Most setups can't even build boost at 2000 rpm so those setups benefit from that extra timing by making more power and therefore spooling quicker than it would with retarded timing. A turbo upgrade would "like" that timing, as would a larger cam that makes less cylinder pressure at low RPM.
Stinger, I followed your steps for timing exactly. Starting from the beginning I had someone crank my car while adjusting the timing to 10degress btdc. I then got the car running like that, went into ignition settings and switch it to "fixed timing" and made sure the TS gauge locked at 20 degrees. I walked over to my motor and adjusted distributor until I seen 20degrees. Went back to laptop and switched fixed timing out with the other option I forget. But now my timing is at about 25degrees at idle. Is that normal also using your boport 1.9 cam base tune.
86 XRATi Ported big valve head Boport 1.9 Precision 6262 CP Pistons Crower rods PiMP'd 85lb Delphi inj.