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Post by fish88top on May 13, 2012 14:30:49 GMT -5
Started to setup my MS2 went through all of the setup steps in the sticky. Got the car to start and at least stay kinda idling. When I went to check the timing commanded to what TS was saying I removed the spout and the car idled perfect. As soon as I put the spout back in the car idled rough again and surged from about 880 to 1200 rpms. What could the problem be? When the spout is out the timing reads 10 degrees as it should.
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Post by Stinger on May 13, 2012 14:46:22 GMT -5
Well, how much timing are you commanding at idle? Since the spout only effects timing advance, my assumption would be that a rough idle with it in would mean you've got too much advance.
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Post by fish88top on May 13, 2012 19:59:24 GMT -5
Where would I find that? The ignition table says 16 at the higher part of the surge and 13.7 at the lowest. Its real hard to guess because of the surge.
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Post by fish88top on May 13, 2012 20:32:39 GMT -5
I reread the sticky about setting base timing and saw that the table you posted was way larger then the base table i got. Can I do the same thing that I did for the VE table and select 6 cells and set them to the same amount to smooth out the idle? I know I cant hurt anything with fuel but what about timing.
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Post by Stinger on May 13, 2012 23:28:17 GMT -5
It's very difficult (maybe impossible) to hurt an engine at idle, regardless of the fuel/timing settings. If your idle timing is somewhere between 0 and 50, it won't hurt the engine, it will just effect the way the engine runs.
You can select cells and change their values just like the VE table, though I'd suggest understanding timing requirements for an engine under varying conditions before getting too involved with tuning the timing table, particularly under load.
Is this a DIY ecu or one from Scott? I thought both of them had 30+ degrees timing at idle in their provided timing map so the "13.7 to 16" info you provided above seems odd.
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Post by fish88top on May 14, 2012 16:59:44 GMT -5
Yes its a plug and play unit from DIY. Im not sure if i got the right base tune. I've had a hard with it from the start. I downloaded one off of their site and this is the table that's in it. I attached the table so you can see what I've got. Still doesn't make much sense that it runs bad with the spout in. That should mean it needs less timing.
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Post by Stinger on May 14, 2012 17:55:05 GMT -5
Have you contacted DIY about the base tune?
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Post by fish88top on May 14, 2012 18:52:43 GMT -5
Not for this specific problem I had issues with the base VE table so they sent me a link to the tune that im running now. I never thought about checking the tune that came with the MS2. I'll do that and see if its different. The guys on the forum over there are very helpful but you reply much faster
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Post by fish88top on May 14, 2012 18:59:02 GMT -5
Just checked the tune that came with my MS2. The ignition table is the same as the one I attached earlier. I think I'm going to completely start over with my timing. Check for TDC and reset my base timing from there. Just doesn't make sense to me to run perfect with the spout out and the advance be that low. I was running 14 degrees base before the swap and it ran ok. That means with the spout in it had 24 degrees correct? The spout adds 10 degrees or so at idle I think.
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Post by Stinger on May 14, 2012 20:47:59 GMT -5
Have you verified what the timing is with the spout in? Not on the laptop but at the engine?
The spout doesn't add 10 degrees at idle with the stock ecu, it adds whatever is in the timing table and varies depending on the rpm and load value the engine is running at. It's typically much more than 10 degrees additional though. There is a whole thread dedicated to timing required for an engine with pictures of timing tables and everything at the top of this forum. If you're starting over with your timing table, I'd suggest you start there.
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Post by fish88top on May 15, 2012 17:00:42 GMT -5
I will. I couldn't check timing with the spout in because it surged real bad. It would go from about 20 to about 27-28degrees.
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Post by Stinger on May 15, 2012 22:36:20 GMT -5
I will. I couldn't check timing with the spout in because it surged real bad. It would go from about 20 to about 27-28degrees. So what did this refer to then: Where would I find that? The ignition table says 16 at the higher part of the surge and 13.7 at the lowest. Its real hard to guess because of the surge.
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Post by fish88top on May 16, 2012 18:41:30 GMT -5
When I wrote that I first had the user settings set to beginner so I couldn't see the table. Then I found the ignition table and that's what it was saying at Idle. With a timing light though it was surging between 20-28 degrees. Should I use the wizard to make them the same? In the table when it is surging it bounces between the cells that are that far part. If I make those cells the same I think it would smooth it out. Is my thinking correct?? If it would I could atleast check the timing without the surge
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Post by Stinger on May 16, 2012 22:26:11 GMT -5
You need to make commanded timing = actual timing by locking the timing in Tunerstudio to 20 degrees and then turning the distributor until it reads 20 degrees, as covered in the sticky thread(s) at the top of this forum. It's basically step one of tuning a MS system.
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Post by fish88top on May 17, 2012 16:53:19 GMT -5
ok ill try that. Thats what i was trying to do when this problem slowed me down.
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