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Post by fortydegnorth on Nov 13, 2012 14:53:27 GMT -5
My alternator hasn't been charging due to a wiring blunder on my part. I didn't have the "I", field wire, for the alternator hooked up to a switched 12v source. Fixed that by wiring it to the ignition. Now that the alternator is charging and showing around 14v just above idle the engine won't run. MS2 has been running pretty well even with a rough tune. No program changes at all except the alternator charges now. It will idle somewhat but as soon as you go above idle it breaks up, spits, pops and usually dies. Grounds on the MS all seem good and they are all grounded to the frame or battery. The battery is grounded to the frame as well. No idea what to even look for. Open to suggestions.
The alternator has a 2 gauge ground wire going directly to the transmission/frame mount.
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Post by wesk on Nov 13, 2012 16:02:57 GMT -5
-Specifically, where are the MS grounds landed? They should all go to one location (but remain separate wires). -What does a datalog show during this event?
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Post by fortydegnorth on Nov 13, 2012 16:10:12 GMT -5
Since this is a tube frame and all one welded piece basically, I drilled holes into a plated section of the frame, ground the powder coat off and installed the grounds there with stainless bolts.
I left the shop for today but didn't get a datalog. I did cut the "I" alternator wire and it runs great again. Now it's hooked back up so it charges properly. While it was unhooked I hooked a battery charger up at 10 amps and it mimicked the problem of the alternator. So it's definitely caused by more voltage than the steady voltage the battery alone provides.
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Post by wesk on Nov 14, 2012 9:24:22 GMT -5
Again, need a log to determine if the issue lies in the various voltage corrections (dwell and injector open time), or if the issue lies with electrical noise/interferance caused by ground paths.
Post a datalog and a .msq, and I will attempt to help you. Without that this is random speculation.
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Post by fortydegnorth on Nov 14, 2012 9:52:17 GMT -5
I will get a log today. I have a couple things to try also. With the 3G alternator someone said they need resistance in the Ignition wire. So either a resistor or a light to add resistance. I have a light I can wire in. Also my maximum dwell was set to 5.6 with the LS2 coils and someone suggested 4.3-4.5. I can try that also. If those don't work I will pull the grounds off the frame and try to organize them differently and make sure they have good independent grounds and good separation. In the meantime, depending on how it runs, I will datalog idle and slightly revving and post up what I have. I was already having a problem, with the engine running good, with the duty cycle and PW falling flat and AFR spiking lean at just about any RPM. I have some issues for sure. One thing at a time I guess.
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Post by wesk on Nov 14, 2012 13:20:32 GMT -5
Log and msq is first. If the alternator is charging, don't waste your time with its wiring (except perhaps its high current ground path) The high dwell is likely not the cause of your problems, but the ignition coils will consume much less current (and sink less to ground) with less dwell.
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Post by fortydegnorth on Nov 14, 2012 14:13:55 GMT -5
Moved some ground wires, they are all separated and good. Added the light to the "I" wire on the alternator. Alternator is still charging around 14 volts. Lowered dwell to 4.3. Still runs like crap.
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Post by fortydegnorth on Nov 14, 2012 14:14:39 GMT -5
Here is the current tune
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Post by wesk on Nov 14, 2012 14:48:43 GMT -5
Did you touch the throttle in that log, or is that simply an attempted idle? TPS showed 0 for entire log, although watching MAP I think that was accurate. Do you have an IAC installed? I would go ahead and open the butterfly up more on the screw. Do this, and I will attempt to send you an updated file to try tonight.
Nothing looked "noisy" as far as the alternator is concerned. I think the extra load on the engine simply puts it in an "unhappy" place. Remind me what injectors again?
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Post by fortydegnorth on Nov 14, 2012 15:19:32 GMT -5
85# Delphi injectors. I have a couple logs but that one I believe was just idle and no throttle. That was basically attempted idle. I can send or post a couple other logs in which one I did try to hold the throttle open around 1000 rpm. It used to idle around 850 but now it's way down and if I touch the butterfly it basically dies or bucks a ton. No IAC.
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Post by fortydegnorth on Nov 14, 2012 15:20:53 GMT -5
My email is fortydegnorth@yahoo.com
Thanks a ton Wes for looking at this.
Another log:
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Post by fortydegnorth on Nov 14, 2012 15:32:36 GMT -5
I have a log from when the alternator wasn't charging but it's too big of a file to post. How do I cut it down? Or if you want it I can probably email it to you if you send your email.
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Post by wesk on Nov 14, 2012 22:25:39 GMT -5
Try and report better/worse/same. Before you even start, open up the butterfly slightly, and re zero TPS.
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Post by wesk on Nov 14, 2012 23:17:41 GMT -5
If that doesn't change anything, then I would seriously examine how the battery is ground to frame, as well as engine. I really didn't see anything in the .msq that explains much, but perhaps it is just lean at high loads/low speeds (and can't recover).
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Post by 4barrelmike on Nov 15, 2012 0:24:11 GMT -5
When you wired the green to switched power, did you move the yellow from switched power to unswitched (battery)?
Mike
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