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Post by charliewhite on Apr 11, 2020 23:45:37 GMT -5
So this is a fun one to chase down. High pitched tick- higher pitch than a lifter, only when warm. At cold start up, it sounds like smooth valvetrain. Thought it was a pin, just ordered new pistons, but I caught this on slow motion video. The tap doesnt stay in the same place in the timing events. Thinking I’m going to rule out worn internal mechanical parts. Anybody have any ideas? Maybe oil galley blockage? Maybe timing belt tensioner?
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Post by Stinger on Apr 12, 2020 0:24:11 GMT -5
Sounds like a typical 2.3 to me.
Seems like the noise is always when the cam timing mark is directly over the thermostat housing?
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Post by charliewhite on Apr 12, 2020 3:50:06 GMT -5
I’ve owned a few 2.3s and this doesn’t sound right. It’s pretty loud in person. Did you see the point where the tick moves? At the beginning of the video, the knock happens at the spark event for the #1 piston. At the beginning of the rev, there is a double knock, and after the rev, it’s at the spark event for the #4 piston. When the engine is shut down and fired back up, it tends to move. It seems to knock at a spark event every time. Which one is a roll of the dice though. I was just lucky enough to catch the change on video.
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Post by charliewhite on Apr 12, 2020 10:26:37 GMT -5
About halfway into the video is when the magic happens.
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Post by Stinger on Apr 12, 2020 14:07:55 GMT -5
I watched it from 35 seconds on and didn't see when the magic happens.
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Post by charliewhite on Apr 12, 2020 14:36:45 GMT -5
Well, the video starts off with the tick happening at the top of the compression stroke for the #1 cylinder. I have the top of the cam gear marked with yellow paint marker. As I start to rev the engine a little bit, there is a double knock for a split second, and then the tick ends up happening at the top of the exhaust stroke for the rest of the video. You can see the position of the cam when the knock happens. And it changes places. It’s unusual.
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Post by charliewhite on Apr 12, 2020 14:49:53 GMT -5
If you pay attention to the paint mark, you’ll see what I’m talking about. I’m not making this sh!t up!
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Post by firewheel56 on Apr 12, 2020 16:57:40 GMT -5
DO you feel maybe it is piston slap due to bore or the top ring hitting ridge if there is one. i had one with alot of wear in bore and it broke a piston skirt and stayed in place but taped/knocked. pull the belts but not cambelt and check. pull valvecover look at cam for flat spot on lobe. or flat spot on rockers/or lack of oil on rockers or end of rocker wear and hitting valve retainer. broken valve spring. crank pulley loose.keyway. cam walking due the rear retainer wear. i have had if all . even a bad aux shaft sounded like that . good luck . you will find it.
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Post by charliewhite on Apr 12, 2020 18:02:01 GMT -5
its A roller cam, so I’m doubting a flat cam. The phantom nature of the location of the knock has me doubting a broken anything in a specific timing event- a spring/ a follower, etc.. I’ve gone through a couple of auxiliary shafts, didn’t change the noise. It happens once per cam rotation, but isn’t confined to a specific timing event. Has anyone had a timing belt tensioner causing the harmonics to be all funky with the cam like that? The Esslinger pulley has a sloppier keyway with the boport cam than the stock setup. I have it torqued down to 65 ft-lbs, but it could still be tapping on the roll pin. Anyone have any experience with that causing noise?
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Post by charliewhite on Apr 12, 2020 18:17:40 GMT -5
Cam walk doesn’t sound impossible either. Yeah
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Post by turbochallenged on Apr 12, 2020 18:18:38 GMT -5
A stethoscope might help pinpoint where its coming from. Have you looked at the belts?
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Post by charliewhite on Apr 12, 2020 19:06:49 GMT -5
First thing I did was pull the accessory belt off. Stethoscope hears it best at the front of the engine right around the thermostat housing.
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Post by charliewhite on Apr 12, 2020 19:08:39 GMT -5
Timing belt is new.
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Post by firewheel56 on Apr 12, 2020 22:07:39 GMT -5
YES on the belt tensioner it was new and not running true so i sprayed WD40 on pulley and belt help a little belt was walking . if you have stronger valve springs it put a very little more load on belt and cam gear .will it sound the same with a stock cam gear?
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Post by charliewhite on Apr 13, 2020 0:54:22 GMT -5
Not quite sure. I’ve never had the stock timing set on this engine. I would have to go to the boneyard and pick a crankshaft damper(or whatever that chunk of iron on the nose of the crank is called). I cut some meat off of the original on the lathe to make room for the fatter timing belt. And yeah, I have the next step up from stock for the springs that boport sells.
Funny you mentioned that. I was just reading a bulletin on aftermarket cams for Harley twin cam engines, explaining excessive backlash noise caused by gear clearances and spring pressures on the downside of the cam lobes. Seems like it could be applicable in this scenario. The cam timing events end roughly around the tops and bottoms of the crank strokes, give or take, if I’m not mistaken, right? That’s about when the noise happens.
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