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Post by saengineering on Jan 17, 2010 16:17:14 GMT -5
Hello Gentlemen, I'm new here, I am a long time Mustang aficionado. But I am now working on a project that while not a 2.3 Ford the cylinder head is very similar (2.2L Mopar) I am upgrading a Max effort Turbo 2.2L drag race cyl. head and had a custom Mechanical roller cam ground-.605 lift, 255@.050 dur. I checked out some of the videos on this site and it is appearent that in the 2.3 Ford world you guys are using far more radical cams than the mopar guys are.
My question to you is How much valve spring pressure are you using with your max effort roller race cams (mechanical)? if you would be so kind to share that info.
Also, how high are you revving the roller cammed engines (drag race)?
And I would also add... nice site and some very nice cars over here!
Thanks, Warren
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Post by Stinger on Jan 18, 2010 1:15:15 GMT -5
Boport would be more qualified to answer this question but if I remember right, I think it's around 150lb off the seat on the larger cams (~.500-.550 lift)
Typically we don't rev over 7500 or so with stock(ish) bottom ends and most of the cams are designed to peak between 5500-7000rpm. There are a few turbo guys going much higher (8500+) with different cam grinds and bottom ends built to spin that kind of rpm though.
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Post by saengineering on Jan 18, 2010 11:45:57 GMT -5
Thanks, Do you mean 150# on the seat? how much pressure over the nose?
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Post by Stinger on Jan 19, 2010 13:16:55 GMT -5
I just talked to Bo and asked that he reply to this thread. We should see what he has to say in a little while. He did say my 150# number was a little high, it's more like 125-130 on the seat.
Bo has said this previously:
"The seat spring pressure requirements really depend on the design of the lobe and how much velocity it has off the seat, over the nose and off the seat. A big base circle cam with a lot of seat to seat duration and not a lot of lift makes for a pretty soft or mild lobe design. This is why you can get away with a wimpy spring with that cam. With more aggressive lobe designs and smaller base circles of today's more popular aftermarket roller grinds the need for more seat pressure goes up".
"Its always a good idea to overspring the head than underspring. The slight more strain on parts with a heavier spring is nothing compared to the kind of strain a valvetrain undergoes when in valve float".
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Boport
Boosting 5 psi
Head is my specialty!
Posts: 11 
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Post by Boport on Jan 19, 2010 13:27:39 GMT -5
Hi,
What is the advertised duration of the cam? This helps in determining how aggressive the profile is, which also determines the spring pressure you need. Ultimately, you should consult with your cam grinder (if they have direct experience with this engine).
The above cam in question uses a lobe some-what similar to our mechanical roller stage 4 grind. When we install these cams in our iron heads we set up the springs to produce between 160-175# closed and about 450# open depending on the application. With a higher flowing aftermarket head that can support more rpm, we run as high as 200# on the seat and over 500# open. The weight of the valvetrain also can play a huge factor in spring selection, something else to keep in mind. Hope that helps,
Bo
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Post by oneowner88lx on Jan 20, 2010 12:06:35 GMT -5
One thing I learned from building a V8 engine last year is when you start to get into the high spring rates make sure your retainers and locks are strong enough to handle the higher pressures. Bo would know more about this then me but just thought I would throw that out there because you don't want to drop a valve.
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Post by saengineering on Jan 20, 2010 16:39:29 GMT -5
First off, Thank you for answering non turbo Ford related questions, and for the professional courtesy. I wouldn't ask here, but I am in uncharted territory for turbo Mope cams and I want to get it right the first time. The seat to seat duration of the cam in question is 310 deg. int, and 305 deg exh. .605 max valve lift. I had custom Manley valves made and finding the right 'off the shelf' springs was the biggest problem. I ended up buying some Crane stuff just before they went tits up. found some 127#closed, 370# open. These are the only springs I could find that would allow enough travel without coil bind, and fit all other required dimensions. My cam grinder is no help with springs cause he has no experience with this head. The weak link I believe will be these stock roller followers. We have nothing aftermarket to use. I would be willing to machine customs myself but decided to try these first. Boport or anyone else, look at the attached photos and see if any red flags go up about this setup as I would appreciate your candid assessment. Thanks you, Warren |
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Post by saengineering on Jan 20, 2010 16:46:02 GMT -5
Whoops, cant get the attached pics to work. not used to this format.
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Post by Stinger on Jan 20, 2010 17:41:36 GMT -5
If you already have the picture hosted online somewhere (photobucket or something), then just post the img link and it will show up. If it's on your computer, click the reply word below each post (not the quick reply box) and under the subject will be the "attachment" box where you can browse for the picture on your computer and upload it to the forum. Oh, and wow that is a big cam  |
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Post by oneowner88lx on Jan 20, 2010 18:08:42 GMT -5
My cam grinder is no help with springs cause he has no experience with this head. He should be able to tell you what spring pressure at what installed height you need for the given cam if you know the rocker arm ratio. On some heads you can machine the spring seats some to gain installed height. On other setups you can gain some installed height by going with something like +.050" retainer locks. If you don't have one Summit Racing sells Valve Spring Height Micrometers that are very nice in the $50 range. I used one to shim the springs to get all the installed heights as close as possible to each other. |
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Post by saengineering on Jan 20, 2010 19:24:00 GMT -5
Trying photos again..........
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Post by saengineering on Jan 20, 2010 19:29:15 GMT -5
#2
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Post by saengineering on Jan 20, 2010 19:30:57 GMT -5
Hardware...........
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Post by saengineering on Jan 20, 2010 19:40:06 GMT -5
Old cam on left used 95# on seat, 265# open, was hydraulic 280 deg. advertised. .485 lift at valve. Worked very good to 500HP.
New prototype mechanical roller cam on right, hoping to use 125#seat, 370# over the nose to 7500 rpm?? What say you?
Again, I apologize for bringing this up on a 2.3 board but like I said this has not been tried on a 2.2 single cam mopar and the 2.3L ford layout is similar. And WOW! does that Boport SVO sound wicked!!
What does that car run at the track?.........Warren
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Post by oneowner88lx on Jan 20, 2010 21:49:17 GMT -5
Nice looking hardware. You might want to contact Brian Hafliger at Indio Motor Machines. He does R&D work for Comp Cams and is a Mopar guy. He spec'd out a custom roller cam for my small block mopar stroker and he is really good with valve springs, cams, head porting, and head set up: www.immengines.com/Very friendly no BS guy. Give him a ring, he will be glad to help you. |
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