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Post by joshescoboost on Nov 13, 2020 14:14:14 GMT -5
Tuning with just adjustable fuel pressure regulator and manual boost controller, Timing, can you do it. If I add adjustable parameters such as an elevated fuel pump , fpr And boost solenoid will the eca compensate. Must I use a tuning software? Just want to max out stock components. Engine and emission compliant components stock. Is this possible. Can I reach north of 250hp.  |
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Post by Stinger on Nov 13, 2020 14:35:53 GMT -5
So you're referring to using a stock Ford ECU and "tuning" with fuel pressure and boost pressure? (If so I'll be moving this thread to the 2.3 Turbo Tech section as this section is only for people running a PiMPx ECU)
What application? I assume it's got the stock ECU and injectors? Anything that's not stock?
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Post by joshescoboost on Nov 13, 2020 19:33:38 GMT -5
Correct. Everything is stock. Computer and injectors yes. K&n filter and turbo and manifolds, Vam and barometer, Aluminum flywheel standrd clutch. Would like it tuned to 250 to 300 with or without nitro. Preferably with.
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Post by Stinger on Nov 13, 2020 20:02:18 GMT -5
What application?
Nitro = Nitromethane.
Nitrous Oxide and Nitromethane aren't the same thing.
How much power you can make with the stock stuff depends on the application (that's why I've asked twice what the application is) as the turbo size, injector size, VAM size, presence of an intercooler, etc. all changes with application.
You'll need a free flowing 3" exhaust to help you get there (and an FMIC if your application isn't intercooled).
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Post by joshescoboost on Nov 13, 2020 20:38:36 GMT -5
Nitrous oxide, top mounted inter cooler and stock elbow and exhaust. If I have to get a beefier elbow, that’ll be something I’ll have to think about. Stock 1984 SVO. Turbo is stock. If I can upgrade the turbo while maintaining the same size (t3 t4 hybrid?) and fits in stock location that’ll be great. interested in tuning and would like to learn more about it. Thanks.
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Post by Stinger on Nov 13, 2020 22:02:42 GMT -5
84 SVO's make about 150-160hp at the wheels in stock form. The stock turbo can support about 265hp at the wheels. Stock injectors can only support about 230hp at the wheels at stock fuel pressure. You can bump up fuel pressure a little but if you go too far, it will run rich at idle and cruise conditions. These numbers are all without nitrous. Adding nitrous obviously stacks on top of this, though you'll need a wet kit since you don't have the injector capacity for a dry kit. Stock fuel pump also won't handle much more than the stock turbo so if it's more than about a 50 shot you'll likely be out of pump (if it's in "as-new" condition, otherwise it flows even less). You'd likely need to add a wideband o2 setup in order to make sure it's not running lean at high boost/high RPM (which will damage the engine).
The stock turbo elbow is fine, the restriction at these power levels is the diameter of the exhaust tubing, the stock cat, the stock muffler, etc. Our 3" system adds 40hp at the wheels for this reason.
Real tuning to unlock the power potential of these engines involves getting rid of the 40 year old electronics and replacing it with a modern ECU, larger injectors, larger turbo, etc.
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Post by joshescoboost on Nov 15, 2020 11:45:57 GMT -5
I’m still looking for an answer to my original question. I have an understanding of what I need to make big power, but wonder if the computer will adjust with some basic parameters adjustments, 20lbs > wastegate, elevated fuel pressure, timing, manual boost solenoid.
I have another project for a pimpx and proper tuning and power but for this particular application, I would like just these basic upgrades. Nos can wait for other project. Is there a way to tune these engines this way or must I use a tuning software? Willing to read as much literature as needed.
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Post by Stinger on Nov 15, 2020 14:05:42 GMT -5
Once the VAM is maxed out (which happens at nearly stock power levels), there is no more "adjusting" the ECU will do with more boost as it has no way to read "boost" pressure and no way to read additional airflow since the airflow sensor is maxed out. So the VAM is maxed out but it's calibrated to run overly rich from the factory so to some extent extra boost is "OK" as it just leans out the rich factory calibration. Once you get to the point of being too lean in boost, you start adding fuel pressure to compensate. This works OK for a little more fuel enrichment but after you add about 10% more fuel flow the ECU can no longer remove enough fuel flow at idle (via o2 sensor compensation) to allow it to idle and cruise at the correct AFR. The more fuel pressure you add, the worse this gets.
This does no factor in the practical boost limits of pump gas (particularly with a stock intercooler), limits of the fuel pump, fuel injectors, etc. You also have to consider that the stock timing table is configured for 93+ octane and 15psi so less octane and more boost on an old engine with carbon buildup in the chambers, oil contamination from leaking valve seals, turbo seals, PCV system, and rings only exacerbates this problem. How far you can push it depends on how much idle and cruise degradation you are willing to accept, whether you have a wideband, and your understanding of tuning and how all of these factors come into play.
Without a wideband you have no good way of knowing how rich or lean it is. This is why I said one would be required to safely max out the stock components.
This is why an ECU upgrade is so popular on these cars, even in nearly stock form.
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