Valvetrain ticking, need suggestions

[merkurhardlyknower]

Hello,

I finally got my engine and car together enough to run on the road. No more smoke out of the tailpipe, the coolant seems stable, and the cooling system seems capable of keeping up with the heat. Unfortunately, one thing I have not been able to diagnose is a tick in the valvetrain.

When starting the engine, there is a noticeable sewing machine type of noise coming from the engine that increases in tempo with the engine, and does not go away after warming it up or going on a drive. I have had the head serviced due to a head gasket issue and asked them to service the valves while they had it, and while trying to fix the my new problem I replaced the HLAs with Mellings JB-2012, in which I soaked for 3 hours in an assembly oil and motor oil blend and broke-in with 20 minutes of varied RPM idle. I still have OEM springs, cam, and rockers. The machinist did not mention anything about the condition of those remaining parts, but I know on the third cylinder exhaust valve there is a slight divot on the edge of the lobe.

Before replacing the HLAs, I shook the rockers and all but 1 and 8 were loose in the head. I assume whatever is causing that is my problem, as the head I had for the NA engine still has the rockers held tightly by the lifters. Did not check to see if the springs were broken or split, but they all compressed well with the tool I used while replacing HLAs. After replacing and breaking them in, I tried to double check and make sure the issue was in the valvetrain by pulling a spark plug wire and running the engine, which did not affect the ticking noise except that it caught up with the speed of the engine.

Aside from the ticking, the car runs fine. No smoke, no overheating, does not seem down on power, and the car reacts well to boost except for a weird whine at 10+ PSI that might or might not be normal.

I have a few different ideas as to what it could be at this point:

1. I need to drive the car for a while and let the lifters work. Maybe a liquid moly additive would help, but letting it run would allow the lifters to soak in enough oil to lift enough.

2. The springs are old, and are not lifting the rocker enough to fully contact the lifter

3. I am not getting enough oil to the head due to a blocked or malfunctioning oil pump, and the lifters cannot pump up.

4. Cam and followers are worn enough to rattle, and I should replace them with a roller setup from a junkyard Ranger.

Before I shoot the parts cannon and pull the engine to install them all, what should I focus on trying to find? Any and all suggestions welcome.

[Stinger]

The HLA's will be full of oil quickly. Normally within seconds but a few minutes max so that should not be the issue.

Springs aren't the issue unless they are broke (not likely).

Oil pressure, who knows.

Whether the rockers are loose or not depends on where the engine is rotated (different ones will be a bit loose as it rotates).

A roller cam is always nice but I'd likely start by simply pulling the cam cover and inspecting things. There is a good chance you'll see the culprit.

[merkurhardlyknower]

Did not know that about the rockers, I would have assumed that a loose lifter would cause the noise because once the cam lobe touches it, it has to touch either the valve stem or lifter creating a tick.

I plan to find some way to measure the oil pressure just so I don't go chasing a different problem than what I have. The additive wouldn't be a bad idea, would it? How about shimming the HLAs that have loose rockers?

I'll pull the valve cover off again and look, but odds are I'll just jump to a roller setup and eliminate that possibility. I can get the whole setup from a junk yard in town for around $30, which is the best deal for car parts post-covid haha.

[Stinger]

The lifters pump up (get taller) when oil pressure is present. As soon as the engine shuts off, they bleed down a bit which means there will be clearance between the cam/rocker/lifter if the cam is rotated to a position where it's not pressing on the spring. So there is no shimming of hydraulic lash adjusters (HLA's aka lifters) required. Even if you converted to solid/adjustable lash adjusters, they are adjusted to have a small gap so the rockers will feel "loose" when the cam is rotated to TDC.

[merkurhardlyknower]

I see what you're saying, the nature of the HLAs is that they shouldn't need shimming or even adjustment to function right. Would you happen to know if they have enough range to adjust to a reground or worn cam? I do not know if mine is suffering from that problem or not.

I spent some more time looking it over. Using a stethoscope on the valve cover, there's a distinct and loud ticking all across the top of the valve cover. However, there is also ticking when resting the stethoscope on the front of the oil pan, however it is faint in comparison and the same speed as the noise up top. I figured it's noise transfer, but if it's possible I'm chasing a bottom end problem please point that out.

Oil pressure is within tolerance, idle while warm has it at 20-22 and it goes up with the speed of the engine. I am using an equus gauge from autozone and forgot to use teflon tape on the threads, so the gauge likely is not entirely accurate, but probably close.

Update: I went out to pull the valve cover off, and I found a bunch of loose rockers (up and down play) and one that must have had a penny's thickness of play, I probably could have twisted it out by hand. Something's not right. Further inspection, I noticed the tip of the valve on that especially loose one seems to have been ground down, likely to correct height after valve job. Below are images of my valve, cam, and a reference from my NA engine. Is it possible they ground it down so much that between that and the cam, there isn't enough height remaining in the HLA to bridge the gap? Can I safely shim the HLAs to see if that solves my problem? 

[Stinger]

Shimming stock HLA's will move the oil groove away from the oil hole, causing a lack of oil flow into/out of the HLA. Aftermarket HLA's typically have a wider oil groove. A reground cam "may" require shimming, that depends on the specs, valve length, etc. A worn cam shouldn't require shimming (and shouldn't be ran anyway). Cam geometry on these engines is sort of difficult to understand/diagnose if you're not overly familiar with it. You may need to contact the company that did the head work originally to figure out what parts were used, what was done, etc.

[merkurhardlyknower]

Good point, Stinger. I understand I'm messing with dynamics I don't quite understand, so before drastic action I should address the simpler stuff. I knew my cam is a lot more worn than I should run, so I ran down to my favorite yard and got a roller setup with lunch money. While tearing my stuff out of the head of my engine, I turned the engine over with the suspect HLAs out, and it pumped a steady steam of oil all over my header and intake, so oil delivery is not a likely issue. Installing the cam and the rollers, the sewing machine sound went away and reduced my ticking to almost not noticeable with the hood closed, so my next step is to replace my springs with a new set of drop-ins from Boport. If that doesn't help, that's when I will invest in some lash caps and spacers. So far so good, thank you for talking me off the edge!

[Stinger]

Remember that the injectors click so it's never going to have no clicking at all.

[merkurhardlyknower]

Yeah I hear what you're saying. Listening to that electrical click makes me wonder if something else is wrong. At some point I'll have to stop chasing noises and enjoy the car!

Would you happen to know if the drop-in boport springs are compatible with a factory roller cam, and if I need to transfer my old spring cages to my new springs? I was hoping for instructions, but my package did not come with any.

[merkurhardlyknower]

Update for future swappers, I replaced my springs with Boport's 110# drop in springs on my factory ranger roller cam, and just starting up and idling the car seemed a lot happier. Took it for a drive, and where speed kicked in at about 8 PSI, it feels strong all along the boost range up to about 15 PSI where mine is set to max out at. Idle ticking seems to have gone away as well. Very satisfied with my results.

[Stinger]

Good to hear!