Oil blowing out the turbo

[atxturbo]

Hello, I’m new to turbos, like very new so go easy on me. I bought a 87 mustang that has a 87-88 thunderbird coupe motor in it or so I’m told. I was initially having a no start issue but changing the fuel pump and dumping the nasty gas solved that. The po was in the middle of swapping the cluster to a 90-93 mustang so I tried to finish the job. I finally gave up and found 88 cluster and re wired it. I never could get the oil pressure or the fuel gauge to successfully work but I don’t think it’s related to my issue.

I had previous been able to idle the car for a few min without any real problems. Maybe a slight throttle issue but nothing major. I chose not to because I hadn’t worked all the kinks out of the engine. Well fast forward to a few starts ago. I pull the dipstick while the engine is running. I heard some sucking/pushing noise coming from the dipstick and like a DA I pulled the dipstick anyway. I heard the engine stumble and then looked over and saw the turbo smoking and the smoke from the exhaust. I have since found a open port under the tb that I plugged, wired the manual boost controller (that’s was disconnected and just looped around. And I also added a new pcv valve thinking I was having a crankcase issue. When I take the oil filler cap off I have a pretty strong vacuum pulling down on my hand. I also pulled the pcv valve completely off (clogged the intake side) and have a pretty strong crankcase pressure blowing up out the hose. I checked compression and they all are in the upper 160s. I noticed that the previous owner had roughly 6-6.5 qrts in the motor. I changed the oil and added 5 qrts. Did having too much oil blow the turbo seals?

I took the inlet off from in front of the turbo and have very little left to right play. I don’t feel any back to front play (if you can accurate check from there)

Also is there anyway to determine what blew the turbo seals? I’d hate to pull this turbo off and rebuild it for it to blow again not knowing what I have done wrong.

How much crankcase pressure should these 2.3s have? Could this motor be a high compression motor? Would that cause higher crankcase pressure? The starter or the engine sounds extremely strong when she cranks over.

Here are some pics. Is the canister looking thing running from the valve cover to the front of the turbo supposed to be able to blow through it each way? Is it some sore of check valve?

Well looks like I can’t add pics. Maybe since I’m new.

[Stinger]

Pics can't be added on here unless you host them somewhere and post the links.

Here is the reply sent earlier today when you emailed about it:

No open vacuum port anywhere in the system is ever OK. That's a vacuum & boost leak, both of which will cause running issues.

The breather is a "turbo" breather but it's being used with the non-turbo valve cover, hence the odd mounting situation (it normally slips into the valve cover instead of having a hose plugged into the bottom of it).

You can't check oil level while running as a lot of the oil would be in the head, and the oil in the pan can be frothy and the crank is whipping some of it around in the crankcase. It also takes away the ability of the PCV to do its job and introduces a vacuum leak in the system.

The turbo seals are like piston rings, not rubber seals, so when they "blow", they aren't necessarily bad, they are just letting excess pressure past them because of excess crankcase pressure not allowing oil to drain (for instance). So sometimes if you can fix the cause you can avoid a turbo rebuild.

[atxturbo]

Thanks for the reply. I just checked and your email went to spam.

So do you know the issue? Was it the fact that I pulled the dipstick? Since I had zero issues before that? I also plugged that port under the Tb so maybe that’s adding to more crankcase pressure and that was relieving some? I tried unplugging that port again and moving everything back that I had previously done but I still was smoking out the neighborhood so I shut it down after a few seconds.

Maybe oil is pooling inside the turbo and needs to be burned out? I can see it spraying out the flange (guess there is an exhaust leak as the pipe turns down toward the ground. But then you can see it coming between the T3 flange on the header and also where it meets the exhaust pipe. I can also see a puddle of oil at the lowest spot of the exhaust under the car now. :/


Although now thinking about it. I can go outside later in the day and more and more oil is under the car so it has to be continuously leaking and not from the one initial dipstick pull.

[Stinger]

If it's at the header flange then it's coming from the engine, not the turbo. There is nothing that pulling the dipstick can harm so that's got to be nothing more than a coincidence.

[atxturbo]

Little update. I finished rebuilding the turbo and there is no more oil coming out the turbo and in the exhaust. Not sure if it was the turbo piston seal or I read that if you go a long time without changing the oil which the PO did that the coking (which it had some) causes the carbon seal to let go sending boost into the crankcase which then was pushing my oil backup towards the turbo and not letting it drain correctly. I’m getting a slight smoke from the tail pipe after 15 min of idle but I believe it’s the oil left in the exhaust heating up and burning. I’ll know more when I test drive tomorrow.

[atxturbo]

Another update. I ended up having oil rushing out of the cold side. I also popped off the piece from the compressor housing to the fender while trying to go up the street. That’s when I saw just how bad the oil was inside the cold side. I didn’t know if I did something wrong with the 4 piece carbon seal so I tore it down again. The little spring behind the washer was upside down (little end up instead of down). Gpop said initially that he didn’t think that would cause a leak but later through email hinted that it could cause issues. I also pulled the drain pan and drilled it bigger (thank goodness for step bits) and finally got a true 10an line.

I don’t have any oil (at least from the outside) seeping out on the turbo anymore but I’m still having issues going up the hill. Seems to rev fine idling. But as soon as I go up the hill, I build boost (which kicks in pretty decent) but as soon as I let off the gas the blow off valve shoots, and then start to studder and basically stall. Same thing happened when I shot off the tubing going to the fender last go around.

I’m only guessing but I think I’m having either a VAM issue or tps issue.

I have a extra megasquirt pnp that I was going to use in other foxbody but thinking I might add it to this car especially if I’m having VAM issues. Ive searched the web for specific installs on 2.3 mustangs and don’t see a lot of info. I was thinking I just need to basically undo the pin change at the computer to make it “mustang”

Thanks in advance.

[Stinger]

What blow off valve are you using?

[atxturbo]

Turboxs I believe

[Stinger]

That isn't enough info to definitively help, however, I'll assume that's a single piston BOV which can't be used with a metered-air system (MAF or VAM) and therefore is causing or amplifying the stalling issue as the BOV causes a massive vacuum leak any time it opens. This is the reason we sell a dual piston BOV for VAM equipped vehicles.

[atxturbo]

Jul 22, 2022 11:42:38 GMT -5 Stinger said:

That isn't enough info to definitively help, however, I'll assume that's a single piston BOV which can't be used with a metered-air system (MAF or VAM) and therefore is causing or amplifying the stalling issue as the BOV causes a massive vacuum leak any time it opens. This is the reason we sell a dual piston BOV for VAM equipped vehicles.

Oh wow. Like I said before I don’t know a anything about turbos but always thought it would be a fun car. I should have started over from the beginning but I trusted the car was running before getting it. I had to move the pin 33 to 43 (I believe off hand) so the PO def didn’t finish the swap correctly.

Two questions. Can I unplug the bov and see if the problem I’m having goes away for the time being. I read that they are needed to keep air from rushing back to the compressor over time and breaking things pre maturely but for testing purposes will it be okay?

And is it possible to make the megasquirt 2.0 pnp work with this setup or are they completely different machine and only work with mustang v8s? I cant find any answer online and I see that a lot of people use pimp which I don’t mind doing down the road but I can’t say how long I’ll have this 2.3 working correctly if ever so I have my doubts.

[Stinger]

You have to remove it and plug the hole to do that test. Just unplugging the vac hose will not work (it will blow open in boost, causing a new issue).

Megasquirt PNP's can work with 2.3's. The main obstacle there is there isn't much support for doing so, so the question would be whether you can get it figured out. This is where the PIMPx has a big advantage. PiMPx isn't 2.3 specific, it can do batch fire V8's, or can be sent back and upgraded to a PiMPxs for sequential V8's as well. So whether you keep the 2.3 or not doesn't really matter.

[atxturbo]

Jul 22, 2022 22:15:35 GMT -5 Stinger said:

You have to remove it and plug the hole to do that test. Just unplugging the vac hose will not work (it will blow open in boost, causing a new issue).

Megasquirt PNP's can work with 2.3's. The main obstacle there is there isn't much support for doing so, so the question would be whether you can get it figured out. This is where the PIMPx has a big advantage. PiMPx isn't 2.3 specific, it can do batch fire V8's, or can be sent back and upgraded to a PiMPxs for sequential V8's as well. So whether you keep the 2.3 or not doesn't really matter.

Okay. Sounds like I need a dual piston bov asap. And thanks for the info for MS.

[atxturbo]

Jul 22, 2022 22:15:35 GMT -5 Stinger said:

You have to remove it and plug the hole to do that test. Just unplugging the vac hose will not work (it will blow open in boost, causing a new issue).

Megasquirt PNP's can work with 2.3's. The main obstacle there is there isn't much support for doing so, so the question would be whether you can get it figured out. This is where the PIMPx has a big advantage. PiMPx isn't 2.3 specific, it can do batch fire V8's, or can be sent back and upgraded to a PiMPxs for sequential V8's as well. So whether you keep the 2.3 or not doesn't really matter.

Well I went ahead and put a piece of 2.5 inch pipe in place of the bov. First run up the hill it’s stalled and I limped it back down by doing a U turn. I blew the piece going into the fender again. I tightened the clamp more and went up the hill again. This time I made it up the hill without it stalling. Notice the boost gauge went to 7, the. 10, then 12 before letting off. I still don’t understand the gauge since I’m new to boost. I have the manual boost controller completely screwed outwards. I went up the hill a 3rd time giving a little more throttle and when I made the U turn to come back down since I can chance it much further. It stalled. I was able to start it and get it back down to my house this time. One thing I’m noticing is the cold side piping is extremely hot. I read on another post that this 2.3 run cooler so I’m thinking this isn’t normal. I expect the cold side by the turbo to be hot but the piping coming off the driver side intercooler coming back in front of the cooling fans is too hot to touch. This seems odd to me.

I wanna buy the pipe kit from you since there’s 30 some odd hose clamps this guy used before me so can’t be good for boost leakage but I’m afraid of putting money into this turd for it never to work correctly.

[Stinger]

What's the idle speed if you have it warmed up idling and you disconnect the idle air control solenoid on the throttle body? If it stalls or is under 700 rpm, adjust the idle stop screw so it's 750-800 rpm, then plug he IAC solenoid back in.

What don't you understand about the boost gauge?

How much vacuum does it run at idle?

[atxturbo]

Jul 28, 2022 17:26:43 GMT -5 Stinger said:

What's the idle speed if you have it warmed up idling and you disconnect the idle air control solenoid on the throttle body? If it stalls or is under 700 rpm, adjust the idle stop screw so it's 750-800 rpm, then plug he IAC solenoid back in.

What don't you understand about the boost gauge?

How much vacuum does it run at idle?

I’ll recheck the idle speed now that it at least will make it up the hill. I know it was idling around that before. Today when I fired it up it was idling pretty high and I unscrewed it back down to 800ish.

Well I asked a person who knows more about turbos then me and when I asked “so if I turn the boost controller in a couple turns means when I punch it I should be say 12psi and say a couple more turns in I should see 15psi on the boost gauge” he said not necessarily.

I show around 18 on the vacuum side of the gauge at idle.